Homestuck.XYZ 2.0

As the title says. In an alternate continuity in which Hussie is also killed and replaced but this time by you, what would have been different about Homestuck? Feel free to diverge at any point.

I'm not so presumptuous to think that I could have done anything better than Hussie, but I like to think that I'd focus on giving more concrete mechanics of the game, as well as not rushing to the end while avoiding any character development for so many characters. Also, nothing against Hiveswap, but I don't understand why that was the game choice and not like, a representation of the game, you know? I'd still probably keep the Epilogues and Friendsim/Pesterquest though

I would remove the Alpha Kids and instead make a small collection of moments, gently time-skipping through the three years it takes to make it to the new Universe. Then, I'd have the kids arrive in a completely blank slate of a Session, starting the whole thing over from scratch. I also had an idea to keep AR as well as WV alive, or at least saving more of the Exiles than were lost. Maybe have a scene where Karkat encounters Spades Slick in the dreambubbles and there's some extra closure slapped on, maybe have them hug idk. Anyway, they manage to defeat Lord English by using two Portal Windows and trapping him in between them, then sealing the windows together so that LE can never escape. Also Gamzee returns to his original personality and every troll gets proper closure through the Dream Bubbles. The Alpha Trolls do not happen. Then they finish the game and live happily ever after, the end.

Off the top of my head I'd probably keep the beta trolls alive long enough so they can all meet the beta kids. Also instead of PM getting the ring AR gets it. Also no stupid three years shit and I'd cut the alphas because Cascade feels near the ending to me.

So obviously, the retcon needs to be addressed. My solution? Bring back the meowrails.

Now, stop and think about this for a second. Really, think about it. Terezi hates Gamzee, Terezi being made to kill Vriska was caused by Gamzee, and Gamzee in Game Over killed Karkat, beat Terezi senseless, and baited Kanaya into her death. So why would Terezi's best plan involve bringing back Vriska, and only Vriska, instead of just stopping Gamzee?

All John would have to do is zap in, interfere with Equius: Seek the Highblood, thereby saving Equius and Nepeta and stopping Gamzee's rampage before it even started, which would implicity keep Vriska alive as well. The cast still stay thin, though, since Sollux, Aradia, Feferi, and Eridan would still be dead/alive but in the furthest ring. More importantly, it gives popular but minor characters an opportunity to get extra development, and avoids the "Vriska fixes everything" effect. Vriska would still be very important, because this is Vriska after all, but her development wouldn't have to be undone to keep her relevant and things that are out of character for Vriska could be handled by the emotionally intelligent, outgoing and playful Nepeta, or the creepy weirdo Equius. Rose needs to get over her drinking problem and advance her relationship with Kanaya? Nepeta ships them. Dave needs to confront his sexuality? He realizes he's fairly normal compared to the sweaty horsefucker. And, of course, the most important facet of this development would be that NepJohn would be endgame.

Having Equius alive would create some LE-related plot holes, but those could be solved fairly easily by bringing his corpse in from another timeline or just having Equius, wearing Lil Hal, subdue Caliborn instead of Arquius.

Homestuck is so homestuck I feel like I'd royally screw it up if I tried to write it myself, but if i had to say what I'd do differently, i'd fkesh out/establish more relationships between characters. like I would not hesitate to make jade and rose talk more and explore the dynamic between rose kinda not taking the game seriously and rejecting its terms, and that stuff basically being everything to jade. What I'm basically saying is I'd make jaderose canon

Much like the good folks over at canwc, I'd finally find a use for the Magnetic Wodka

RoyalFiddle wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:53 am

I'm not so presumptuous to think that I could have done anything better than Hussie, but I like to think that I'd focus on giving more concrete mechanics of the game, as well as not rushing to the end while avoiding any character development for so many characters. Also, nothing against Hiveswap, but I don't understand why that was the game choice and not like, a representation of the game, you know? I'd still probably keep the Epilogues and Friendsim/Pesterquest though

I definitely agree with this here. i would have definitely given a more concrete outline of the game and how it worked, and, when pressed to make a real gome, for homestuck, definitely would have chosen to make it a virtual version of that game, instead of just new lore. maybe a multiplayer one, where you have to have real friends to play it with and its literally just sburb. that would be cool. along with all that though i think i would have also given more detail to the events of the time skip, while obviously i wouldn't have kept the whole thing in i would have at least tried to bring to light exactly how they lived there. where were all of their rooms, did they clean up after themselves often or shove stuff in corners and piles reminiscent of the horn pile? did dave try to host lan parties and immediately take it back upon talking to sollux literally one time ever about it? more funny character building events!

VASKA wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:20 am

So obviously, the retcon needs to be addressed. My solution? Bring back the meowrails.

Now, stop and think about this for a second. Really, think about it. Terezi hates Gamzee, Terezi being made to kill Vriska was caused by Gamzee, and Gamzee in Game Over killed Karkat, beat Terezi senseless, and baited Kanaya into her death. So why would Terezi's best plan involve bringing back Vriska, and only Vriska, instead of just stopping Gamzee?

All John would have to do is zap in, interfere with Equius: Seek the Highblood, thereby saving Equius and Nepeta and stopping Gamzee's rampage before it even started, which would implicity keep Vriska alive as well. The cast still stay thin, though, since Sollux, Aradia, Feferi, and Eridan would still be dead/alive but in the furthest ring. More importantly, it gives popular but minor characters an opportunity to get extra development, and avoids the "Vriska fixes everything" effect. Vriska would still be very important, because this is Vriska after all, but her development wouldn't have to be undone to keep her relevant and things that are out of character for Vriska could be handled by the emotionally intelligent, outgoing and playful Nepeta, or the creepy weirdo Equius. Rose needs to get over her drinking problem and advance her relationship with Kanaya? Nepeta ships them. Dave needs to confront his sexuality? He realizes he's fairly normal compared to the sweaty horsefucker. And, of course, the most important facet of this development would be that NepJohn would be endgame.

Having Equius alive would create some LE-related plot holes, but those could be solved fairly easily by bringing his corpse in from another timeline or just having Equius, wearing Lil Hal, subdue Caliborn instead of Arquius.

I think that the idea of keeping the Meowrails alive serves the characters on the meteor well because Equius and Nepeta both are positive characters who have positive presences, and add more dimensionality than just keeping Vriska alive exclusively. Nepeta prior to her death was like Terezi's friend, they used to RP together and Terezi even made her co-commander of their troll group. She could prop up her sense of self and stop the spiral that Terezi finds herself in post-Cascade. Nepeta also would go gaga for shipping Rose and Terezi and I believe after her own talk with Jaspersprite Nepeta would put her best paw forward to help Rose with her alcoholism, maybe going as far to be a nice and pawsitive furriend to enjoy company with (and one that probably could explain Ashen romance to her better that Rose's failing grasp could hold).

Equius meanwhile I agree would ground Dave to 'at least I'm not as fucked up as THAT guy' line of thinking. Equius also is fairly patient and seems like the sort who Dave will rant to when he isn't talking to Karkat while Equius is working on something like a robot, and without Karkat's histrionic retorts that could make him feel more, I dunno, closed to revealing his thoughts on his own identity and self which is a sight better than the way Dave roundabouts his confrontations with the expectations placed on him and how it's negatively affected him thusly. I also feel like Equius and Kanaya would have been cool to see interact, if only because of how proper Equius presents as and Kanaya's own level of grace she carries herself.

Honestly the more I talk the more open I get to the idea of DavEquius as a couple or someone that sets the ground for Dirk to have some sweet sweet sweaty horseman-meat.

Only thing is that apparently Vriska was needed to just solve the issue of brainwashed Jade and Jane, so I'd say leave her alive since Equius doesn't really take her shit.

Roxy wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:39 pm

I definitely agree with this here. i would have definitely given a more concrete outline of the game and how it worked, and, when pressed to make a real gome, for homestuck, definitely would have chosen to make it a virtual version of that game, instead of just new lore. maybe a multiplayer one, where you have to have real friends to play it with and its literally just sburb. that would be cool. along with all that though i think i would have also given more detail to the events of the time skip, while obviously i wouldn't have kept the whole thing in i would have at least tried to bring to light exactly how they lived there. where were all of their rooms, did they clean up after themselves often or shove stuff in corners and piles reminiscent of the horn pile? did dave try to host lan parties and immediately take it back upon talking to sollux literally one time ever about it? more funny character building events!

does a series of finger guns, like a gods damned cowboy with her hands, like holy shit she's straight up sundance kid, except with finger guns, and you know, a woman. The people are all "can anyone stop this mad woman, finger gunning all over the place like she owns the west?" and the president, western Barrack Obama, is like "Now listen here, that woman is keeping our towns safe, she's teaching the youth some hella cool tricks, and shit, she even has this idea of like, paper money?" and the people begrugingly say "Okay yeah she's hella cool, and those fingers are hella sick"

This posters got my shit down pat, is what I'm saying

I'd spared Spades Slick. Have Karkat fight (or even appear momentarily, idk) on the roof, and when he recognizes him, teams up with the kids (as opposed to what happened in collide, where it was a threeway fight that resulted in three-way decapitation) to defeat Lord Jack. He gets to have his big standoff with English, gets revenge on his casino, and when everything's over he reunites with Karkat in a silly flash similar to the one where John gave casey the bunny

They go to Earth C and everything's good

please i just need slick alive his death was unjust and in vain

Well, I wouldn't have made Homestuck because I'm a different person.

If I'm replacing him at a certain point in time, what I'd do depends on when I'm replacing him.

I would've shifted the focus of the story, myself, although not enough to make it much discernible. Here's what I mean:
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I, for one, wouldn't have put the primary focus on the kids, but give more equal attention to both setting and cast, and the reason for this is threefold. First, that's just how I imagine stories, I think of settings and the characters and how they interact simultaneously. Second, this allows people to theorize on their own. Third, this gives the narrative a higher sense of solidity, that things really exist and are plausible, maybe even analogue and translatable to the real world in some capacity. This means decisions have to be made (would I want there to be 12 classes/aspects up front, or would I keep the number unspecified to let people make their own? In this case, I'd prioritize whatever fit the setting first, and the fandom second), which is fine by me. Actually figuring out the nitty and gritty of each class and aspect would be a bit of work, but I wouldn't put it past me to release a document about my best guesses, especially if I'm as prolific (and have the same skills) as Andrew in the first 2 years.
After the setting and the rules are set, I think that the only other major change would be defining the major plot points throughout the story, though nothing too complex (on page 6000 I gotta have John saying he's not a homo sexual, it's gotta happen!), just the basics: The order for the kids to get into the Medium, how Jack becomes Bec Noir, Lord English, et cetera. As for other stuff like collaboration, I'm not quite sure, I don't have enough information to conjecture and extrapolate, but maybe one day I'll. All and all, I would only do some structural changes, mostly due to my own modus operandi than anything else.

I wouldn't use S.S. Karezi as an impromptu target practice to prove a point about gnostic addiction, but other than that...maybe consider a kinder and more definite end gor everyone involved.

Since this is a very indulgent thread, I am going to be super indulgent! I think the complete work of Homestuck is phenomenal on its own and is far beyond anything I could do in terms of raw genius and creative output. This is just what I think would have added to my homestuck experience.

I would have put more DaveKat into the Game Over timeline. Like instead of focusing on Dave and Karkat's relationship with Terezi with only weird 'penis ouija' scenes with each other, I'd make their budding relationship a lot more explicit, to the point that the (majority of) audience kind of wishes they'd just get over Terezi and make out with each other already. I know lots of fans were already shipping it half-jokingly before the retcon, but I know lots of others were blindsided.

I would have had more scenes between Vriska and Terezi. Idc if it's supposed to be some dance between them with lots of subtext, just give the two of them more screentime. Almost all of Terezi's dialogue in the comic is with Dave. You'd think she should have some more with her supposed endgame ship. (At least she has a lot of poignant scenes with John.)

Scrub the r-slurs and get rid of the Future ArachnidsGrip joke. Just get rid of them. They don't NEED to be there. You CAN go back and change them, Mr. Hussie!

Make Roxygen Explicit It Is A Powerful Ship And Deserves MORE

Honestly, I wouldn't have introduced the Cherubs either. I think they're fun characters and they've grown on me, but I think they're unnecessary to the lore or to the plot. Especially considering they don't even have a Paradox Loop like the other players. (If HS^2 decides to make Cherubs the main characters, I will change my thoughts on this lickety-split.)

Lord English doesn't require Caliborn to make sense. He could have had a whole bunch of different origins. Hell, he could have actually been Jake like people theorized.

With the Epilogues, I would have gotten rid of the weird intimate scene with Gamzee and teenage Vriska and replaced it with a scene from Gamzee's perspective where it turns out he's actually been trying to redeem himself the whole time and John just constantly assumes the worst. He's heartbroken about Jane and just desperately wants his friends to forgive him, and he finds himself with Karkat and Kanaya who accept him into the fold but warn him if he steps out of line he dies.

That's about it!

First thing first, I wouldnt have made act 6 so centered on teen drama. It was something that dragged the plot a lot in a completely unnecessary way and served no purpose whatsoever. This would obviously imply a drastic change in almost everyone of the alphas, with roxy being the least affected. I'll be honest, I dont really know how I would change it, I'm no author, I cant do well written characters at all, but the idea is there, I would just need the proper time and inspiration.
The other thing I would change is, as some people has pointed before me, Vriska. Why just her? I get why Terezi, on her last moments, thougth about her moirail and how she could fix the shit out of that situation, but it feels forced that everything was solved just because of her presence, (even Rose alcoholism ffs). So what I would probably do is to leave her, but bring others too. Maybe stop Gamzee from going loco in some way or preventing some deaths (like someone said before. I really like that meowrails scenario). Or maybe not even that, I could show that Vriska was there for saving Terezi from gamzee, leaving Rose's problem to Kanaya and GO Rose ghost for example. Basically, I would show a bit of the new ride so the loss of the three year character development wouldnt feel that hard.

Either cut down the cast of characters or make sure they all have equal screentime. A lot of the 12 trolls were seemingly forgotten about or only showed up to do 1 thing and then fuck off. Either axe the dancestors (as they have the same problem but even worse) or make them on equal footing as the 12 trolls after they're introduced. Have scenes where people actually get to use their abilities hussie forgot about- make karkat hack something, its his fucking fetch modus. Make equius not completely single handedly destroy meowrails by letting gamzee kill him. Make it so that eq still dies by gamzees hand, but he still puts up considerable fight, and gives him a permanent wound not unlike nepetas claw marks that we saw on gamzees face for the rest of the comic.

Ultimately have equius and nepeta kill gamzee together, possibly in S: Collide.

Have spades slick empathize about having his gang killed. He's not a monster, just bitter than his casinos were hit up and hos friends are dead. Make spades an ally of the kids/trolls since they literally have the same goal (kill lord english.) Additionally, give spades more screentime in general. If we want spades to die regardless make HIM be the one that fights bec noir with his crazy cyber upgrades, and make parcel mistress fly away with Jade and help elsewhere after Bec Noir and PM realize they can't hurt eachother.

Ultimately, Spades gets the ring and kills Jack, but Spades doesn't go crazy evil with his powers. Make Bec Slick and Parcel Mistress team up with Jade to fight one of the other villains near the ending. John also helps Spades fight Bec Noir so the playing field is more even, and also so John can get revenge on Noir killing his dad. Tavros ends up being instrumental in this fight and is brought along somehow, using his beast communing ability to pacify or confuse the dog parts of Bec Noirs brain which allows John and Spades to hurt him.

Droog isn't forgotten about and is turnes into a tertiary antagonist which betrays Jack. Posessed Jack hunts down and kills Droog before Collide.

Cut up act 6 into 2 or 3 acts, so act 6 and 7 or acts 6 7 and 8. Act 6 was hilariously long and I have no idea why there were so many intermissions for one act.

Spend less time on useless emotional drama. Keep in the good scenes though, like drunk rose and kanaya, and most of dirk/jake/roxys antics.

Davekat never happened. Dave and Karkat just end up being pretty chill bros. DirkJake however does end up happening, but only at the end where dirk's finally accepted himself and is ready to have a stable relationship. Also, johnroxy happens.

Dave's bro is never turned abusive 5 acts later due to hussie wanting a tearjerker scene but being too much of a lazy writer to do anything other than corrupt a character to was relatively fine. Dave and Dirk's weird ass left field conversation about abuse turns into them both laughing about all the silly shit their brothers did, but how they still loved them and loved each other. Ends with a bro-hug and a fist bump positive note.

Jane isn't as much of a bitch and learns to let loose. Possible janeroxy moiralship but not required.

All the things prophesized to kill Lord English still actually do it. Collide is kept entirely seperate from a different animated flash which is the ACTUAL fight with Lord English. We get to see everything that was supposed to kill him make an appearance, including Calliope, Caledfwch, etc.

Dad after busting out of prison is still as insanely strong as before and Arquius mentions that he hopes he can reach his level some day. At the end of it all Dad hugs John and Jane and he tells them that he's proud of them.

Caliborn is introduced into the comic way earlier around act 3 or a little later. His puppet show play thing still happens, but its actually a fakeout and the flash itself of the fight plays right after it. His introduction page is a new intermission that goes into all the silly antics he and his sister get up to, but only starts his own game around act 6 like usual. The final flash with the Lord English fight also has his scenes from collide thrown in.

Jade and Calliope talk to the trolls about trollsonas at one point. Some think its weird but others find it charming/amusing. One of the trolls, probably Tavros, asks if he can make a humansona. This opens up an entirely new world for Calliope she hadn't consideres before.

Karkat gets more screentime than the other trolls. Hes the John of the troll session specifically.

Vriska gets way less screentime and is eventually treated like the villain she is, and gets her comeuppance for the awful things shes done. She still helps out later and takes time to reflect, evrntually becoming a much more subdued but much more likable character. AKA actual character arks happen but Vriska really needed one.

Eridans out of the blue murdering doesn't happen. The matriorb is still destroyed, possibly by Gamzee. Eventually someone had a heartfelt conversation with Eridan and Eridan learns to respect boundaries and stop being so desperate.

There is never any kind of retcon. Bad things happen and stay that way. No massive amount of pages or story is ultimately rendered useless.

More explanation on jujus, artifacts, how flarping works, and classpects.

Andrew Hussie (in comic persona) dies much earlier on. Obnoxious literal self insert is toned down as much as possible.

Exiles get more screentime and ultimately do more than they did in comic. Exiles role in Sburb are explained more clearly. Wayward Vagabond is not flanderized into uwu so cute mayor and eventually leads another army. Becomes the acting general of the ghost army rounded up by Tavros.

Authority regulator puts up a better fight before he's killed.

Ancestors get they're own flash. We get to hear the entirety of Iron Infidel in it.

Problem Sleuth gets a cameo as a prospit carapacian.

More alchemization. Smartest trolls/kids try to kit everyone out in the most OP gear possible before fighting English. Its insane to think everyone just forgot alchemization was a thing and didn't use their near infinite grist/boonbucks to just slap the best shit together at the end of the comic. John literally couldve just combined every single one of his hammers into a planet obliterator.

Dancestors act slightly more like their ancestor counterparts but most of their character is still the same.

The Batterwitch has an army of adult trolls on her ship, or at least have the comic explain where all the adult trolls are. Certainly HIC would try to keep her best soldiers with her.

Its 12:40 AM and this is all I can think of. Hopefully I fixed homestuck.

have more girls talk to each other. can you believe aradia and rose barely interacted despite sharing a love of the morbid and the gamebreaking???? jane and damara have the same narrative role! there are so many good unexplored female relationships that we could see if dave and karkat would just shut their fat yaps for five goddamn panels

rookie1978 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:40 am

Its 12:40 AM and this is all I can think of. Hopefully I fixed homestuck.

Well, a few different things. I'm in no position to do anything better than Hussie, but in a theoritcal scenario I do it well perhaps a few things.

- Redo Murderstuck
- Dedicate more time to the some of the undershined trolls (Nepeta, Feferi, Equius, Tavros,
- Make the whole dream bubbles little shorter, not so much fluff with the dream bubbles (Although I admit it was interesting, that time could be better spent developing some of the other characters)
- Following in suit with the spend less time on Dreambubbles, scrap the Dancestors in some form or find a way to make time for them to get their own character.

My biggest gripe with Homestuck is frankly just the wasted potential of so many characters, and Murderstuck is like the epitome of that. It killed off half of the trolls and basically barred the majority of them from any form of development for a long while, bar their adventures as sprites which made up for it a little. I think the bigger troll group and having some more trolls alive through the trip would've done a lot of good to the health of the group. People like Nepeta bring out good traits in the others and I think her potential was squandered hard. I think that something

It felt really shitty knowing that a lot of the characters that got a raw deal were just ones disliked by Hussie. For fucks sake even Eridan deserved more limelight than he got, they could've made his character more nuanced and interesting as a villain as opposed to the one track genocidal maniac we got and the like. It may just be my personal taste in stories but I always enjoyed characters and feel a lot of them are what make Homestuck so amazing for me. I feel like redoing Murderstuck and spending some less time on Dreambubbles and more time on developing the characters in meaningful ways would've increased my enjoyment a lot. I mention the Dancesters here as well because it ties in to that less dream bubble stuff. Scrap the idea or make it work in a different manner. We don't need another 10 underdeveloped trolls with wasted potential.

Edit: I'm going to add more stuff to this post with time, this was just my first idea and I'll probably elaborate more later. It's 2AM here.

Details about redoing Murderstuck, have it center around Gamzee being more controlled by Lord English. He was made to be the villain from the start, don't have some half ass Eridan come and kill a bunch of trolls and the matriorb and than get no development past that. Make Gamzee destroy the Matriorb and attempt to kill some of the other trolls. In the end either have him defeated in some form Eridan, Feferi, and Sollux or Nepeta and Equius.

Some more things (I was a little inspired by rookie's post I'll admit)

- No Act Six Intermission ∞, properly put the story into more acts. Always was a pet peeve of mine.
- Vriska needs to get comeuppance for what she did. In what form this is could vary. Make her a character with potential to be redeemed and grow from their mistakes. (Thanks Rookie)
- Explain things like Chucklevoodos and Jujus more properly
- Put more meaning into some of the game's mechanics, things like Alechmization feel really underutilized, put more emphasis into explanations about the game as well so we get a more concerete idea of things. (Thanks Rookie)
- Scrap the Rings of Life and Void and thereby make the Retcon nullified, take the story in a different direction and don't recton a huge chunk of the story and yet kind of put that power of rectonning aside when it's lost it's usefullness (Thanks Rookie)
- Put more emphasis on the fight with English and the kid's preperations for it. Give us more depth to their powers and how they can use them and let us see that! Especially emphasis on the characters who aren't god tier and how they can use what they have to their advantage and all.
- Some relationship changes, explore more ideas with the ships and cut some out. (Big thanks Rookie)
* Examples being like, no more Davekat, experiment with characters like Karkat, maybe giving Nepeta a chance in that aspect or another troll or relationship, things of that nature. (I'm not the first person you should go to with ships, but if I'm retconning this much it'd be good to mention this as well)0