Homestuck.XYZ 2.0

I believe Denizens should've had more narrative focus and lore to them because they're a really cool concept, discuss and theorize about them and what they mean for their players.

I like denizens, though I actually tend to discard the "players of a certain Aspect share a denizen" idea a lot in my fansessions just because it can hinder creative potential.
That being said, I do wonder what y'all think of the denizens for the aspects we haven't seen yet - Blood, Doom, Heart, Mind, possibly Hope if you think Abraxas is special, and Rage.

i don't think denizens are strictly bound to "an aspect" so much as they represent a concept that is often tied to aspects. so rose and vriska get cetus not necessarily because they are both light players, but because there's something fundamentally similar about them that MAY OR MAY NOT be related to their aspect, which i think is how the game roles work in general.

i think it's interesting that the denizens have always been aware of all of their incarnations across paradox space, relating to their status as 'gods'.

i've always wondered if the denizens are imprinted upon the psyche of all races in the same way horrorterrors are, causing denizen-like figures to appear in the mythologies of all races, or if it's just a total coincidence that echidna and typhon and hephaestus and cetus all happened to appear in human lore. and in the former case, would denizens like yaldabaoth and abraxas who didn't actually appear in the troll session still be imprinted on troll culture? we know giant snakes played a large part in troll myth, but it's impossible to say whether that's because sapient races tend to be drawn toward serpentine imagery or if their society was deliberately engineered that way to make trolls more accustomed to the idea of the denizens. chicken and egg, egg and chicken.

I think that Denizens re the true masters of paradox space.

Not the ones we see. The ones that are their 'ultimate self' and the ones in the game are all pieces of a singular Denizen. The denizens are the 'wizards, stated by Rose's wizard story prophecy.

I like the denizens. They are one of the most interesting things on the comic by far.
I also like their relations with the players, specially Typheus and John's. That one is pretty interesting because Typheus not only fixes one timeline, he fixes two of them! The most obvious is, of course, the GO one, but people seems to forget that is thanks to him that Davesprite and, therefore, Davepetasprite, exits in the first place! I think it was not a direct confrontation what happened when John got there the first time either, I think he gave him a choice, but thats entering theory field and I dont feel like it.
ANYWAY.
Denizens good.

JakeMorph wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:25 am

i've always wondered if the denizens are imprinted upon the psyche of all races in the same way horrorterrors are, causing denizen-like figures to appear in the mythologies of all races, or if it's just a total coincidence that echidna and typhon and hephaestus and cetus all happened to appear in human lore. and in the former case, would denizens like yaldabaoth and abraxas who didn't actually appear in the troll session still be imprinted on troll culture? we know giant snakes played a large part in troll myth, but it's impossible to say whether that's because sapient races tend to be drawn toward serpentine imagery or if their society was deliberately engineered that way to make trolls more accustomed to the idea of the denizens. chicken and egg, egg and chicken.

The giant snakes in Alternian myth are very heavily implied to be Cherubs, not Denizens, but I would say that on a cultural level, species are aware of denizens. We know the kids had the denizens as their browsers and that it is possible for non-players to enter the medium (for example, Grandpa Harley) so it's not outlandish to say denizens have some influence on cultures.

they're mythological. obviously they're INSPIRED by cherubs, but that doesn't mean they can only represent one thing or another in the troll psyche. in the same way the Cancer constellation represents a cosmic memory of Karkat, but also the crab that nipped Hercules on the heel during his battle with the Hydra. there's something to be said about the presence of supernatural snake gods both within and without of Suburb, anyway.

the browser thing doesn't answer my question: obviously denizens exist culturally, because ancient Greece and gnosticism both still exist in the Homestuck universe: the question is if trolls still have those same browsers and myths or if there's no cosmic significance to it whatsoever.

I think, above all else, the denizens are the boldest artistic moment in Homestuck. I have, on three or four separate occasions, approached someone who thinks "aw man the Homestuck artstyle is just weird I don't think I could read a whole comic that looks like that" and shown them the image of John meeting Typheus, to which they inevitably say something like "what the fuck, that's from Homestuck?"

I really wish we had more of a chance to interact with them, or meet more of them, because in terms of design I think that the ones we see are some of the most beautiful, awe-inspiring pages of the entire story

It's weird to me how one of the denizens is literally Yaldabaoth, but instead of being the demiurge, he's just a strong boss monster

Cyber-Fan wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:33 pm

It's weird to me how one of the denizens is literally Yaldabaoth, but instead of being the demiurge, he's just a strong boss monster

Its why i think the denizens are in fact something else. If each instance of a person is a piece or a grander being, what if each instance of a Denizen is the same?

Cyber-Fan wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:33 pm

It's weird to me how one of the denizens is literally Yaldabaoth, but instead of being the demiurge, he's just a strong boss monster

i think if anything that probably tells us he is not "literally Yaldabaoth" and is in fact just a boss monster named after the demiurge

thorondraco wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:31 pm

If each instance of a person is a piece or a grander being, what if each instance of a Denizen is the same?

im pretty sure this is literally canon? as in the comic literally says this?

thorondraco wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:31 pm

Cyber-Fan wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:33 pm

It's weird to me how one of the denizens is literally Yaldabaoth, but instead of being the demiurge, he's just a strong boss monster

Its why i think the denizens are in fact something else. If each instance of a person is a piece or a grander being, what if each instance of a Denizen is the same?

Every instance of a denizen is effectively part of one being, since denizens are aware of all their instances across all timelines and universes simultaneously.

JakeMorph wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:16 pm

Cyber-Fan wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:33 pm

It's weird to me how one of the denizens is literally Yaldabaoth, but instead of being the demiurge, he's just a strong boss monster

i think if anything that probably tells us he is not "literally Yaldabaoth" and is in fact just a boss monster named after the demiurge

thorondraco wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:31 pm

If each instance of a person is a piece or a grander being, what if each instance of a Denizen is the same?

im pretty sure this is literally canon? as in the comic literally says this?

That could lend more credence to my 'the denizens are the rulers/masterminds/WIZARDS!!! of paradox space theory. They act as mentors to the kids they share either an aspect or a quality with, in order to facilitate their control of paradox space. Far as we know denizens are far far more powerful than they let on, using but a fraction of their strength, enough to challenge their students/pawns/slaves depending on what they must accomplish to either lose as destined or win as destined.

Basically instead of one demiurge its .....

I am going to guess 14. Twelve for the aspects and two more for specific players. Really powerful ones get Yadalboath, and those who are weak but with grand potential get the one i can never remember.

VASKA wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:18 pm

JakeMorph wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:25 am

...causing denizen-like figures to appear in the mythologies of all races...

The giant snakes in Alternian myth are very heavily implied to be Cherubs, not Denizens...

How in the hell did the similarities between Cherubs and Denizens never once occur to me?? You'd think the fact that they're both giant snakes might have triggered an epiphany for me at some point, but nope. Just now, upon reading these posts, did it hit me. I could claim it's because I read concurrently, and the space of time between which the denizens were first introduced/seen to when Cherub life cycles were discussed was relatively far apart in real time, but then I just reread the comic for the first time since it ended a few months ago so I have no excuse

Maybe, Doc Scratch implanted bigass Cherub snakes into Alternian lore as a sort of "preparation" for the trolls to encounter denizens? It is his job to make the trolls session as familiar and easy to understand as possible

^ that's basically my interpretation, but like i've been saying, it raises interesting questions: typhon, echidna, yaldabaoth and abraxas are all snake deities in real life (cetus is a dragon, i guess? hephaestus, hemera and nyx aren't really anything in particular but the comic kind of shies away from that anyway), so if we assume Homestuck's earth has the same or equivalent mythology, we have to wonder if they were inserted into human culture too, if they're just naturally supposed to occur on reproductive planets, or if it's a total coincidence.

(as an aside, my headcanon is that hephaestus was a deity primarily revered in east alternia and was associated with the forging of really dope swords in particular)

Brandibee wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:55 am

How in the hell did the similarities between Cherubs and Denizens never once occur to me?? You'd think the fact that they're both giant snakes might have triggered an epiphany for me at some point, but nope. Just now, upon reading these posts, did it hit me.

i think calliope hints toward this near the end of the comic, when she's drawing the scene where john meets typheus and remarks upon the embarrassing nature of his shape in cherubic culture, but my memory's a little fuzzy.