At this point, with both the Friendsims long done and the Pesterquest halfway there, I think many can agree there is something very off about the Reader presented in the Pesterquest.
While more than likely the idea of a random Reader stand in falling into Alternia all started as just filler cause of production issues, and I think one of the homestuck devs actually mentioned that at some point, they seem to have decided to do something with the reader.
They could have simply left the reader in Doc scratch's room as the reader stand in, his fate unknown, after Friendsims. But nope, now we are half way through the reader gaining one of the greatest powers someone can hold in homestuck, struggling against his puppetmaster, and further shenanigans that might be linking it to Homestuck^2.
Does anyone have any major theories about who or what our dear sweet Reader is? And what his ultimate fate could be? Could he be someone we know degraded into some other state? A character stand in who is becoming a person? Could he become a third faction in this war over Paradox Space's future?
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:07 pm
by RoyalFiddle
Reader is us. He is our stand in, and always has been, and probably always will be. We relate to the characters, we want them to succeed, and to overcome their traumas, and to be our friends. I don't think MMSPA Reader will be relevant to HS^2, but if they do become relevant, I would imagine them to neither side with Callie or Dirk, electing to fix the problems in their own way.
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:29 pm
by Flame_Warp
I think they're definitely the "Character stand-in who decided to become a person" side of things, myself. They've always had a character, but it's been becoming even more of an element in PQ, where they're actually like. Gaining their own emotions and shit. No clue how they came to be-wouldn't surprise me if they were just ectobio'd from themselves or some shit.
They have plans for Reader. I don't know what they are, but they have plans for them. And I really do hope they end up in HS2. I've always hoped that there's some effort to reconstruct after the Epilogues took a sledgehammer to basically every theme and character in Homestuck, and that's almost expressly what Reader's goal is.
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:32 pm
by JakeMorph
the most fun interpretation of the mspa reader to me will always be that they are literally the character from jailbreak who got put next to that stump. if that doesn't at least factor into whatever overarching story they may ever decide to give the character than what's the point afaic
I think they're definitely the "Character stand-in who decided to become a person" side of things, myself. They've always had a character, but it's been becoming even more of an element in PQ, where they're actually like. Gaining their own emotions and shit. No clue how they came to be-wouldn't surprise me if they were just ectobio'd from themselves or some shit.
They have plans for Reader. I don't know what they are, but they have plans for them. And I really do hope they end up in HS2. I've always hoped that there's some effort to reconstruct after the Epilogues took a sledgehammer to basically every theme and character in Homestuck, and that's almost expressly what Reader's goal is.
In my madness i got this weird theory that the reader is an incarnation of John. Specifically (John), the one produced when John gained control of his retcon powers. So i always wondered, what if that John dicked off somewhere else and had been doing something in the shadows to 'remain relevant' or something?
The idea of how in the name of god he turned into the Mspa reader is simply me speculating on how that Cherub Venom worked. If it like, poisoned John's ultimate self it might have negatively affected all johns sitll connected to paradox space. Which becomes an explanation of why Candy john can't use his powers. His ultimate self is dead, or he senses he is in danger and is recoiling, like putting your hand near an open flame. Think the latter personally, especially as John's powers seem to really be based on how he feels.
However (John) whose soul had become so defiant, resisted the poison's effect, refusing to die as it eroded him. Like someone erasing the lines off of a sketch, he was reduced to the form we see now. Alive, but at the cost of being John anymore.
I have no idea how events could have lead to him being on Alternia though.
Though i would say you theory is interesting and takes less mental gymnastics than mine by far XD
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:26 pm
by nonsenseMnemonic
I share Flame_Warp's perspective here: MSPAReader is an audience stand-in who's developed their own feelings and traits over time, by actually interacting with the story vs just reading it. I don't really think it'd make sense if they were anyone else, and I also think if they were a "real" character the story would lose its impact. Right now they stand as a lil metaphor for how fan interaction can change the course of a story.
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:27 pm
by VASKA
Honestly? I think the reader is supposed to be a cosmic "wild card". I think Pesterquest is basically the reader created a new timeline: an official no-sburb AU. He's setting the grounds for the big "canon-breaking" project of Homestuck^2 by setting up common fanfiction AUs.
I share Flame_Warp's perspective here: MSPAReader is an audience stand-in who's developed their own feelings and traits over time, by actually interacting with the story vs just reading it. I don't really think it'd make sense if they were anyone else, and I also think if they were a "real" character the story would lose its impact. Right now they stand as a lil metaphor for how fan interaction can change the course of a story.
I think there is implication he becomes a 'real' character somehow. The YCH comparison, character creation minigame and such. Heck unlike when he started, he couldn't be puppeted by a Cerulean. anymore. Piece by piece he is becoming more and more than a stand in and into something else, Evolving. Question is what does he become by the end? And how? What will he be when someone adds the lines needed to make him whole?
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:55 am
by rookie1978
Probably some kind of psuedo-carapacian Scratch had engineered to do his bidding. Still weird how Scratches ultimate goal for his unknowing agent was to just.. make friends with a bunch of random alternian trolls. I guess we'll see how that works out. MSPA Reader is definitely free from his grasp now regardless.
Still weird how Scratches ultimate goal for his unknowing agent was to just.. make friends with a bunch of random alternian trolls.
Well, the way he puts it is that Reader was there to put pieces in place. Keep some trolls alive, forge some connections, probably whatever happened to Fozzer was important...all that stuff.
Probably some kind of psuedo-carapacian Scratch had engineered to do his bidding. Still weird how Scratches ultimate goal for his unknowing agent was to just.. make friends with a bunch of random alternian trolls. I guess we'll see how that works out. MSPA Reader is definitely free from his grasp now regardless.
His actions were related to hiveswap obviously. And it is also implied that he is working with, or for, someone to do whatever Hiveswap is supposed to be.
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:42 am
by TH4NK YOU B3N
this is so funny you're all using "he" pronouns instead of "they" pronouns for mspa reader like you're john egbert kin
mspa reader can wear several dresses and a bra and get invited to the lesbian cafe and you're like "yeah that's a Man"
(not that men can't do those things but what i'm saying is the bar for someone to pass as a thembo is way too high)
this is so funny you're all using "he" pronouns instead of "they" pronouns for mspa reader like you're john egbert kin
mspa reader can wear several dresses and a bra and get invited to the lesbian cafe and you're like "yeah that's a Man"
(not that men can't do those things but what i'm saying is the bar for someone to pass as a thembo is way too high)
this is by far the funniest thing Ive read on this forums.
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:48 am
by JakeMorph
it's a reader stand in i dont think it has a pronoun preference
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:51 am
by aeonic maiden
okay the forums suck and didn't let me save post for some fucking reason but what I said was that yes thank you ben you are correct the only people who call mspar a he are john and dave who probably are too straight and too manly to know what an enby is my theory is similar to rookie's I believe scratch created mspar for a specific purpose mainly to give himself an out think about it scratch know about the epilogues and what LE's fate is and nothing can change that! except for the powers of the juju which scratch just so happened to leave to the reader so that they can break all the words time loops so that LE can rule without hinderence also its pretty obvious who t pose man is that's right is sans form undertale also known by his birth name Andrew huss!
Re: Mspa reader Theory thread
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:52 am
by aeonic maiden
nvm the problem is that the forums make you resubmit something if someone posts a comment while your writing and I just thought it broke so didn't save what I wrote the first time
this is so funny you're all using "he" pronouns instead of "they" pronouns for mspa reader like you're john egbert kin
mspa reader can wear several dresses and a bra and get invited to the lesbian cafe and you're like "yeah that's a Man"
(not that men can't do those things but what i'm saying is the bar for someone to pass as a thembo is way too high)
On the one hand you're right (and Gamzee interchanges between 'sister' and 'brother' with them), but to be fair the games themselves do also occasionally use 'he' for them. Still, they're totally intended to be NB. Downright fem-leaning, honestly, with their clothing choices and only notable body information.
I think there is implication he becomes a 'real' character somehow. The YCH comparison, character creation minigame and such. Heck unlike when he started, he couldn't be puppeted by a Cerulean. anymore. Piece by piece he is becoming more and more than a stand in and into something else, Evolving. Question is what does he become by the end? And how? What will he be when someone adds the lines needed to make him whole?
Yeah, by "real" I mean like some of what people are suggesting here, someone with a concrete past who has always been real: what if MSPAR was John, a Carapacian, Dirk, whatever. MSPAR most certainly has their own feelings and is their own character at this point, but I don't think they ever stopped being a stand-in either.
The MSPAReader's physique is very similar to some people we've seen before.
These people? They have fenestrated windows that transport them to a dream realm, an imaginary land (Dream Bubbles?), not unlike some other people, who're able to get a glimpse into any place they want every time they want
Furthermore, take a look at Sleuth's inventory, and Spades Slick's inventory.
Very similar, huh? If you pay attention to the stories, both the intermission and problem sleuth have the same weapon-item feature. while the midnight crew use it as an inventory base, team sleuth treat it as a glitch. However, besides Kanaya (whose lipstick-chainsaw is a clear reference to Hysterical Dame), carapacians are the only characters to possess these sorts of items in the entirety of Homestuck, so it's a pretty fair assumption to believe carapacians are the only ones who can have these weapon-items.
HOW IS THAT RELEVANT, YOU ASK?
Well, I needed to prove the obvious link between carapacians and the problem sleuth characters, since that's not confirmed in the comic itself. However, through this thought exercise, it's possible to link this connection even further, to MSPAR themself.
How, you ask?
MSPAR is clearly the same one that appears in Jailbreak. Even though they're metanarrive and outside the universe, you can clearly see they're meant to be the same species as the jailbreak characters. Jailbreak, on its own merit, happens in the same universe as PS. (sources of images: PS, JB, JB, HS)
^this is us right now
MAFA, HOW DO I KNOW YOU'RE NOT JUST SMOKING A SHITTON OF LEGAL ENTORPECENTS AND MAKING THIS UP?
Let's get the Monster Evidence then
EXHIBIT A: JOHNS ROUTE
EXHIBIT B: JADES ROUTE
What we abstain from this is: MSPAREADER AND PROSPITIANS ARE VERY SIMILAR AND THE CHARACTERS ACKNOWLEDGE THIS
NOW LET'S GET TO THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: IF THEY'RE A CARAPACIAN, WHY DON'T THEY HAVE NO SHELL?
Here's the theory: They do.
It's just soft.
Why would you think that, I hear you say. Well you see, think of all the things the MSPAR ate during their Hiveswap and Pesterquest journey. Not very healthy stuff, right? Not enough milk, I imagine. Perhaps you could say they're even malnourished.
According to this published paper, this is the (approximate) mineral composition in a crab:
If the crab is malnourished, it's gonna be missing most of the nutrients, of which Calcium is the one that shows up in the carapace the most
Calcium is the main biochemical component in hardened structures such as coral, sponges and your own b o n e s
so what I take from this is that if a carapacian eats poorly the shell would probably be easy to crack, or perhaps even softened
Enough to appear to be skin? Possibly!
This is my hot take
TL;DR: MSPAREADER IS A PROSPITIAN CARAPACIAN WHOSE SHELL HAS GONE SOFT DUE TO MALNOURISHMENT. GIVE YOUR THEMBO SOME HEALTHY MEALS
