THE GAMZEECOURSE THREAD

[aspiringWatcher]

All clown, no honks, final fridgestination.

Personal opinion: Hussie's writing of Capricorn is similar to "no" in shape. This is all I need to say.

[calamityCons]

Gamzee’s character fucking sucks because he is literally just a plot device and vehicle for things to happen that Hussie wants to happen. He, like many of the trolls, has a lot of character potential. Which is then quickly squandered. Blugh.

[BrobyDDark]

No, God damn it. Don't fucking talk about it. That fuckin' clown is like a memetic threat SCP- the more discussion about it the more it can fuck about Homestuck properties and make everything ten times worse.

[JakeMorph]

I love Gamzee, I think he's equal parts funny and terrifying and that's all he's meant to be.

Obviously he's not a good person, and I think it's clear he's not being "mind controlled by Lil Cal" like a lot of people seem to think he is. But I do think the fact that he was only 13 when he was being neglected by the only parental figure he had, struggling with a substance addiction and dealing with having been indoctrinated into a cult is something a lot of people who are willing to excuse other characters for "just being 13 at the time" seem to willfully ignore about him.

[rookie1978]

HoNk

[RoyalFiddle]

HoNk

HoNk HoNk

[calamityCons]

You know, I've been reading Gamzee's dialogue from Hivebent and I have that one extension that gives Hussie's book commentary onto the pages, and I genuinely think Gamzee was originally just written as a huge space case who can't stay in the present moment to save his life. I do not believe that he was always a sociopath in any way. He doesn't show any signs of being maliciously negligent or not caring about his friends. In fact most of the time when Gamzee speaks, he's either expositing something to the audience (his convo with Terezi), completely at a loss for what's happening (Equius convo), or being genuinely supportive and helpful as he can be (Tavros, Eridan). It just makes my heart hurt that Gamzee just, became a flat-as-cardboard monster clown and never changed back. :o(

[Sahxyel]

You know, I've been reading Gamzee's dialogue from Hivebent and I have that one extension that gives Hussie's book commentary onto the pages, and I genuinely think Gamzee was originally just written as a huge space case who can't stay in the present moment to save his life. I do not believe that he was always a sociopath in any way. He doesn't show any signs of being maliciously negligent or not caring about his friends.

Same honestly. Not to say I didn't like the direction taken where Gamzee went from being friendly honk clown to terrifying antagonist who is pissed over his religion being a lie, but he definitely becomes less than anything after Murderstuck and falls into a category of plot agent rather than actual character. The fact Gamzee never in the A6 intermissions appears before Dave and throws his ass down the stairs will forever be something of a missed opportunity.

[calamityCons]

There were just so many characters in the troll group that could have been stabilizing elements and prevented the whole meteor getting filled with murder! Gamzee was the least dangerous troll introduced because he began without any psychic powers and he was never malicious or had ill will toward anyone. I just really missed that guy, and I will admit I had a soft spot for him because I am a Capricorn and I thought it was cool that the Capricorn troll was a member of an extremely wealthy caste but was a sweetheart who only wanted his friends to be happy and tried to share what made him happy with other people. Buuuuuuuugh

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

All clown, no honks, final fridgestination.

Personal opinion: Hussie's writing of Capricorn is similar to "no" in shape. This is all I need to say.

I think that's a font, not handwriting.

[Kidpen]

Vaguely relevant question: can we discuss epilogue stuff here or does all of that have to go into the other board?

[calamityCons]

I'm not sure. Ping the mods? I don't have much to say about Epilogue Gamzee outside of thinking the "redemption arc" Gamzee pretended to have was really annoying to read and I didn't enjoy reading it.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

I think Gamzee is unusually well-foreshadowed in his first pesterlog. Consuelo read the book commentary, so I'll try not to reference anything Hussie said, but take note of this excerpt:

TC: aAaUuUhHh...
CG: WHAT.
TC: Aw BrO nEvErMiNd, I jUsT fUcKiN dId LiKe To ScArE tHe ShIt OuTtA mYsElF hErE.

He scared himself. He's not just a scary clown; he's also a scared clown. He may be too stoned to show it, but that's how he is. There's depth to that concept. Do the Homestuck writers manage to pull it off? [squeaks] No. He's shown to hide in vents like a complete tool and that's it.

The idea that I'd say otherwise will strike you as kind of silly.

I do enjoy his antics, but when he brought up his trauma in the Epilogues, it was only to show that he's manipulative and self-pitying. That's a really shitty way to treat a character, not going to lie. Even if he were the narrator playing 12-dimensional chess, being better at casting himself as the villain than Dirk (and I'm aware that this more generous reading is a bit of a stretch!), it fucking sucks. And by that I mean it's sad as shit.

[egg]

I don't think the Epilogues treated any of its antagonistic figures well.

[Leddy]

I don't think the Epilogues treated any of its antagonistic figures well.

Nor it's protagonists... nor really the majority of it's characters

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

I don't know, I think Candy Rose Lalonde got to be sincerely happy.

ROSE: In the silly wizard story I wrote when I was a child,
ROSE: The realm most comparable to heaven existed in a state of subliminal conditionality, dependent on the inscience of the individual experiencing it.
ROSE: Which is to say that it would cease to exist the moment you realized what it was.
ROSE: And so, those with knowledge could never truly be happy.

It sums up the sort of thing Gamzee believes pretty well. The difference is that Gamzee isn't happy and he might not even be ignorant.

TC: No No BrO, i DoN't WaNnA kNoW, dOn'T eVeN tElL mE.
TC: kNoWiNg ShIt JuSt StEaLs Up AlL tHe FuCkIn MaGiC fRoM mY mIrAcLeS lIkE a MoThErFuCkIn ThIeF.
TC: AnD tHaT aIn'T cOoL.

[snarfgargle]

gamzee is a real g and the comic dun did him dirty

[PilotBlackSmith]

Gamzee is just another troll where Hussie tought about a joke internet stereotype, made a character around it and realized he wanted to make a "rEaL SerIoUS StORy" and fucked up when he had to build an actual character for him, the main difference between him and someone like Nepeta however is that Hussie decided he should actually mess with the plot and shit got fucked.
how many times does gamzee speak in act 6 compared to act 5? I always tought he became way more silent after hivebound and that was the most jarring thing ever

[calamityCons]

You are correct, Gamzee stops speaking or doing anything in the open after Act 6 begins. Whenever he IS included in a pesterlog, he only honks.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Incorrect. Here's him talking in his cosplay. I don't like the implication that we can't tell his pre-retcon actions from those of Aranea. It annoys me that you can't even figure out if his bullshit stems from his motivations or not. I choose to believe that this only applies to stuff like her getting that ring, but we can't be too sure.

He also talks in Ballet of the Dancestors, but I'm not going to look that up.